Actors On Actors: Michelle Yeoh & Cate Blanchett
In this “Actors on Actors” Variety segment, Michelle Yeoh (Everything Everywhere All at Once) and Cate Blanchett (Tár) discuss Michelle's expansive career and how she prepared for her multi-dimensional role as Evelyn. Cate dives into how she crafted the persona of Tár and why she is dying to work with Michelle Yeoh.
“They initially wrote it [Everything Everywhere All at Once] for a man. And I think it’s the norm because it would be easier to finance, and it would be easier to understand that a guy would jump the multi-verse… But then they came back, and they realized it didn’t work. And so, they changed it into a mother role.”
The conversation starts when Cate asks Michelle if she felt like she was bringing to bear decades worth of work in filming Everything Everywhere All at Once. Michelle claims it all started when the duo team of film directors and screenwriters Daniel Kwan and Daniel Scheinert got the courage and audacity to say, “we love movies, and we want to do this.” She believes Kwan and Scheinert threw in everything they wanted but was not allowed to do in past projects. Michelle explains how her lead role was originally written for a male actor. However, after finishing the script, Kwan and Scheinert didn’t feel that a male actor would work, so they changed the fatherly role into a matriarchal role. Michelle believed the change was best because she has seen the duo constantly surrounded by strong, smart women on and off set.
When Michelle received the script, it was a little overwhelming for her. She discusses how being in the movie business for as long as she has led to opportunities becoming narrower over time because an actor moves past their prime. As such, it has been a while since Michelle was offered a lead role with some of her most recent works being supporting roles in films like Crazy Rich Asians and Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. Cate compliments Michelle for creating some of the most memorable scenes in cinema, sometimes with no dialogue. Michelle appreciates the praise and relates the notion of creating scenes without dialogue to Cate’s performance in Tár.
Michelle states she sees dynamic energy in Cate’s portrayal that feels so real and believes it all comes from inside Cate; “Cate doesn’t say she is angry, she expresses it, and it feels like it comes from a deep place.” For Michelle, what is bold about Tár is that Cate’s character is not likable. Sometimes, when an actor doesn’t have the confidence to play that type of character, they tend to stay away from those roles because it brings a lot of questions. Questions, like why would you try and portray someone like that; does it have redemption; are you trying to judge the character, would that happen to me; etc.?
“I think I was very gratified that, finally, I was getting a script where a very non-descript immigrant woman, who has been around for the longest time, trying to live the American dream and survive.”
Cate reveals that like Michelle’s character in Everything Everywhere All at Once, her lead role in Tár was also initially meant to be a man. She explains how director Todd Field originally planned for Tár to center on a male lead because, in Cate’s opinion, the film was a meditation on power. There would have been a much less nuanced examination of the main character if it was a man; most people understand what the corruption of male power looks like. Cate feels power needs to be picked apart to understand it and realize it isn’t gender-based but a force.
Cate believes Michelle understands “power” because she sees Michelle exude it and surrounded by it. From the moment they met socially, Cate could feel the pressure given off by Michelle. Cate reasons this power emanating from Michelle is a combination of her ability to do incredible stunts and distilling that energy into a closeup. In Cate’s opinion, Michelle can make psychological turmoil visceral and tangible without moving. Michelle claims to have learned how to portray emotions without movement or dialogue while filming Memoirs of a Geisha in 2005. She explains how she needed to figure out a way to make her character be felt despite not speaking and always being present. She credits her years of training in martial arts and following the principles of “chi” allowing her to emanate feeling in every move she makes.
“To make such an ordinary woman be extraordinary is very fulfilling because I think that is all of us. There are so many of us out there who are very quiet and think that they’ll just go along the way and maybe no one will notice them.”
Going back to the discussion of the script from Everything Everywhere All at Once, Cate asks Michelle what she thought of it and how she tackled her role. Michelle claims she always wants to work with young directors because she sees it as an opportunity for discovery since they typically throw challenges at you where things don’t often go your way. It was a joy for Michelle to look at what she could do for her character Evelyn to give her a loud, strong voice. Michelle believes the core of stories centered on family is about the relationship between mother and daughter, and mother and her father. She comments on how the culture of many Asian nations are patriarchal; the father is the one who dictates what happens. In the father’s mind, the daughters will be given away at marriage and work for the other family. As a result, women aren’t well-embraced in many ways within Asian culture.
When Michelle met Kwan and Scheinert, she thought they were certifiably insane in the best way possible. When they spoke about the story together, the only thing Michelle wished to change was the name of her character, written as Michelle Wong. When asked why by the duo directors, Michelle explained she was not her, saying, “I’m not an Asian immigrant mother who’s running a laundromat.” The character needs her voice and does not have anything like the actress who portrays her. Cate chimes in by stating her first go at acting involved the theater process of performing linearly even if the play itself was not linear. Each element of a play had to be broken down into little units. With this methodology in mind, Cate was impressed with Michelle’s performance in Everything Everywhere All at Once given how Michelle played many different personas and scenarios.
Cate reveals that director Todd Field, who also wrote Tár, didn’t want the audience to have too much access to Cate’s character Lydia Tár. Based on personal experiences from friends who made a career of being conductors, Cate learned how their personas often cemented their reputation. She reasons that when people think of the great conductors in history, their personality and style is remembered. Cate admits to designing the choreography of Lydia Tár performing as a conductor after watching choreographer Xavier Leroy recreate the movements made by the great conductor Simon Rattle. Leroy’s recreation focused on Rattle’s conduct of Igor Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring and turned it into a dance piece which emulated all of Rattle’s facial postures and gestures. Cate regards the Rite of Spring as one of the most electric and dynamic pieces of classical music she heard.
“As a creative, when you create something, you also have to risk destroying it. In many ways, we are very vulnerable to those kinds of urges of self-denial.”
In analyzing and portraying Lydia Tár, Cate realized that her character is someone who has become estranged from herself even though there’s an understanding, in the community in which Lydia moves in, of who she is and how she thinks. Cate reasons that Lydia being the head of an institution and, therefore, being in a position expected to wield a certain level of authority has caused Lydia to become separate from herself. Separated not only in craft and creative instinct, but also from who she is. Cate feels her character Lydia Tár is driven by an innate desperation to run away from things. This character analysis allowed Cate to access Lydia’s complex humanity and fragility. Cate relates Lydia to Michelle’s character Evelyn in how they are both hidden from themselves; the audience is invited to the dilemma of the self-destruction both characters exhibit without the characters being aware.
Cate believes we are in a time where female performances are coming to life with a sense of rage. She explains how everyone typically talks about rage as being negative, particularly in women and female characters on screen. Cate doesn’t believe this to be true if rage is effectively harnessed. For her, being volcanic in performances is being able to sit and exude a sensation of something coming to the surface. That is an incredible skill Cate claims to see in Michelle. Michelle appreciates the compliment and agrees with Cate. To her, rage is something that is necessary for acting. This is especially true for Everything Everywhere All at Once because her character Evelyn lived many years filled with regret of what could have been different.
“The Daniels have this way of paying homage to people they love and films that have touched them and reached out to them.”
Cate discusses how actress Jamie Lee Curtis once showed her strange pictures of a scene in Everything Everywhere All at Once where Jamie and Michelle had frankfurter fingers. One moment shows Michelle lovingly caresses Jamie from behind, and this reminded Cate of a scene from her film Carol where her character also lovingly caresses her costar from behind. Cate wonders if Michelle also saw the comparison and talked about it with the cast and crew. While she does not know for certain, Michelle claims she wouldn’t be surprised if Kwan and Scheinert did take inspiration from Carol. She believes the directors meant to show how the two characters loved each other despite the surreal situation.
Cate states that Jamie and Michelle bring incredible intensity and truth with an underlying playfulness. In her opinion, only the joint performances of Jamie and Michelle could have made an audience laugh and cry in the frankfurter fingers scene. Appreciative of the commendation, Michelle claims there was a mutual connection with Jamie when they met on set. Michelle then asks Cate what homework she did in preparation for her lead role on Tár. Cate claims that there was homework, but not in a traditional sense. She explains it is conducted similarly to how Michelle must physically train and brutalize her body to achieve stunts. In Cate's opinion, what makes Michelle’s stunts so extraordinary is their intense psychology. Like any role, the actor learns more about the character through every gesture performed.
While further discussing the work she put into Tár, Cate claims she is a follower of the “Hamlet principle.” She explains that many great actors can play Hamlet, but if there isn’t a Gertrude and Ophelia, you don’t receive the play in its best possible form. Everyone on Tár lent into their roles to the point where the collaboration became an ensemble. As a result, much of the homework got thrown out. What mostly occurred is the responsiveness to unexpected suggestions other actors make that tip everything off its axis. The underlying message behind Tár isn’t about music or conducting, but Cate realized she needed to understand those topics.
“I think what is great about our films is that people talk about it; people want to have a conversation. Some conversations are not easy, but it’s necessary. And it’s so important that we stop being so judgy.”
Curious about the pre-performance preparations made by actors, Cate asks Michelle how she feels when she walks on set. While not having too many difficulties getting ready to perform, Michelle reveals that whenever she goes on stage to do a presentation, she can't sleep properly until the event has passed. Looking out at a sea of faces is terrifying to her. While she admits to occasionally feeling nervous before getting on set, she feels confident enough to get back up if she fumbles. On an unrelated topic, Michelle expresses curiosity towards Cate’s life as a mother and actress and asks how she juggles her everyday life. Cate claims she doesn’t and that things just happen. She believes life is not a linear thing. As such, Cate had no plans involving marriage, having kids, or on most milestones many consider in their lifetimes. She revealed that during her time at university, she followed a mindset of travel with her work—that was her ambition.
Cate voices her amazement of the visuals in Everything Everywhere All at Once. What she loves about the visuals and the field script of Tár are the big ideas behind them. When these big ideas are on the big screen, audiences lean into them. In Cate’s mind, a theater-going-audience is part of the performance—if a night is awful, then they would never want to go back, but if it’s wonderful the audience feels alive. Furthermore, she thinks a film-going-audience doesn’t encounter a passive experience—it’s not sit back and relax, but lean forward and engage. Michelle agrees with the sentiment, believing her and Cate’s films create conversation. People can agree to disagree, but it’s imperative to have an exchange.
“Once you’re in that costume, it’s like your mask is on; your armor and shield are on. And so, you are prepared to go into that role.”
Moving the discussion to their respective roles, Cate comments on how Michelle’s character Evelyn portrays herself in many ways. Out of curiosity, Cate asks Michelle how she developed those numerous appearances. Michelle credits being able to pull off alternatives of Evelyn due to the incredible work done by the head costume designer Shirley Kurata. Michelle views costumes as extensions of characters that help her shift personas. When changing costumes, she claims her whole mindset transforms, repeatedly telling herself, “This isn’t Michelle Yeoh, this is [character]” and, “Who is [character]?” Michelle believes it’s the nuances that make the character complete.
Universe jumping in her role allowed Michelle to see what it’s like for Evelyn to witness every decision she made in life could have led. One scene made Michelle particularly sad when Evelyn returned to her universe only to turn to her father and say, “I could have been this if I didn’t go with you.” Everything Everywhere All at One has many moments of heartbreak, but also many moments of realization. Cate comments that despite how different Tár is from Everything Everywhere All at Once, both deal with mortality.
Cate agrees with Michelle about costumes but adds that the portrayal is also about how the character wears them. Actors must be aware of where the character comes from and where they are going. Cate believes much of a character’s state of being is revealed by how they wear their clothes. She feels it is good to have that transformation because you are someone else while acting.
“When we have silence, it [performance] is more powerful.”
Bringing up Michelle’s history of dancing, Cate asks if that is how she started out or if Michelle always had the urge to perform. Initially, Michelle only wanted to perform on stage through dance. Dancing made Michelle believe she didn’t have stage fright until she went to England for ballet school. Michelle loved dancing from nine to five, but unfortunately, she received a back injury that caused her dream of performing ballet to fold over. She was fortunate to have a kind principal who took the time to sit down with Michelle and talk about the different possibilities of dance. That discussion led to Michelle studying and majoring in dance at university while also cultivating an interest in drama. She jokingly admits to being bad at acting in her first few attempts due to fumbling over the performances while panicking on stage.
Cate comments how she loves dialogue from Michelle because she feels that the words spoken by Michelle on screen are essential with no filler. As mentioned earlier, Cate has observed a playfulness alongside the intensity of Michelle’s past portrayals. In her opinion, watching Everything Everywhere All at Once magnified that feeling. Michelle notes that, for her, dialogue isn’t about the number of words you vocalize but allowing an actor to exclaim their ability to perform what they have learned. The conversation ends with both actresses thanking each other for their time and honesty, and Cate offhandedly suggests a joint venture together with Michelle in the future.